A friend of mine who goes by the name of SnusDog compiled a guide for those making the switch from snus to dip for the SnusOn forum site. Link to the thread on the SnusOn forum site.. Health reasons aside (those familiar or not familiar to those issues can view the Snus & Health section here at Snubie.com to read more about it), there are a few things to know and understand when making the switch. When SnusDog offered to let us share his guide that is on SnusOn.com on Snubie.com, we couldn't be more excited. Though I, and a few of those who contribute to Snubie.com, are los users, I've found this guide to be the most complete resource when it comes to making the switch, or learning more about lossnus. I hope it helps!
I have been meaning to post something like this for a while. It seems that many if not most of the folks hear are x-smokers. I applaud you all in your efforts to become smoke free. However, I have come to snus by a different rout and so I want to share my experiences with all those x-dippers who may be looking at this site for suggestions and direction to get started.
Dip vs Snus
For me the issue between dip and snus has never been a one to one comparison between the nicotine levels. I get nic from both products but I also get something else from dip along with the nic that I do not find in snus. Let me illustrate what I mean.
A few weeks ago my brother in law tried to kill me with several Jagermeister-Redbull shots. After a couple of shots, I could feel the effect of the all too familiar Jager. At the same time, I also could feel the very distinct effect of the Red Bull. One shot- two distinct effects.
It is the same with dip- one pinch, two distinct effects. However, I never noticed this distinction and always considered it one and the same fix until I went off of dip completely (as long as I used snus and dip together, the whatever extra was still in my system). When I made the break from dip and went to snus exclusively I noticed it missing from the fix and my gums actually craved it. Also, the withdrawals are very different between the two products. The feeling of being without snus for an extended period of time is different from what I felt when I had to go with out a dip longer than I wanted.
Now I do not have a lab and so I cannot say definitively why this is the case. However, I don�t think the answer (one way or another) is going to be found on the ingredient lists that we keep seeing. The reason is this: to the best of my knowledge, the ingredient lists that I have seen only deal with those ingredients added at the final phase of production. There are several steps prior to the mixing and flavoring stage that contribute to the final composition of the product. For example, fire curing a leaf will change its chemical composition in a way that air curing will not. Yet this important distinction will never show up on an ingredients list.
The result is that these lists along with a simple comparison of the nicotine levels will provide us with only a partial picture at best.
The chemical difference.
The first thing that you will recognize when you switch to snus is the chemical difference between snus and dip. Call it the Swedish purity standard of snus. I dipped a lot (and now I snus a lot). O.K. I chain snus. When I dipped my lip stayed torn up all the time. I was constantly getting that, teeth hurt, gum receding, leathery creasing of the lip (AKA �Dip-Lip�). I have been snusing now for over a year and a half and the inside of my mouth stays smooth and no more dip lip at all. Also, if I went a few hours without a dip, I would get very dizzy and it was pretty hard to concentrate. Now I am not saying that after a few hours without snus that I am unaffected. However, what I realized is that what I thought was a nic fix was in fact a fix of all the other crap that American tobacco puts into their dip (e.g. formaldehyde). For a couple of weeks after making the change to snus, my lip actually craved the dip (kid you not). Another, indication of the chemical difference is that I could not swallow dip without a great deal of heart burn. Snus is meant to be swallowed (like tea or coffee). For me the purity of snus was a major draw and motivation for me to make the change. This purity is evidenced by the low occurrence of oral cancer and gum disease in Sweden (look it up. It is well documented).
Sometimes when I fall asleep with a snus in I'll get a bit of salt texturing. But this is NOTHING like the dip lip one gets from American dip. The salt texturing is from abrasion/pressure. Dip lip is a literal chemical burn. Think of it this way: we have all fallen asleep on a quilt, sofa, or the likes and woken up with imprints on our face. Now imagine you spilled acid on your skin. The effects are completely different. In my experience the analogy is exactly the same. With snus it is an imprint. With dip it is a chemical burn.
That said, my experience is with loose. I don't do portions enough to say one way or the other. However, just from reading the forum, it seems that some portion material is more abrasive and irritating than others. But again this would still be a friction/pressure matter and not a chemical one as it is with American dip.
Different behavior between dip and snus in the mouth.
As I think about the differences in the way that snus and dip behave in the mouth, I am becoming more and more convinced that it has a lot to do with the moisture factor rather than the cut.
Dip seems to start much dryer and then have some sort of preservative added to it (thus the longer shelf life and the lack of required refrigeration). Snus on the other hand is moistened the old fashion way (with water). The result is that snus does not bond or clump as well in the mouth (it runs more).
Now this could be because the preservative used in dip serves as a bonding agent (in much the same way that oil causes the vinegar to adhere to the leaf in a salad) or it could be because the snus does not absorb as much water (being already pretty moist) and thus it is more prone to over saturation and �mudslides�.
Regardless, my hunch is that what ever the factors are they are related to the means used to moisturize and preserve the product.
The cost.
The second thing that you will notice is the cost. My monthly budget went from ~$42.00 a month for dip to ~$30.00 a month for snus to ~$20.00 a month (now that I order my snus in bulk). These prices are with the shipping expense included. Remember, the average American can of dip has 34g of tobacco. Loose snus has on average 45g. For me, an average American dip lasted about 35-45 minutes. An average snus stays in for about two hours. Also, even the regular strength snus is a good deal stronger in nic than the strongest American dip. Thus, less goes further. I use on average 1 can of snus every three and a half days to four days. With dip, I used 1 can every one and a half days. So in comparing the cost you can�t just compare the price of cans. Start by comparing the cost per gram (include the shipping cost). Next, compare your over all monthly cost. Once you get your rotation set and can order in bulk, the cost will drop even further.
The flavor!
The third thing you will recognize is the flavor. The move from American dip to snus is like a move from instant coffee to a high grade roasting house blend. In fact, you will look back on your favorite dip with the fondness of flavored pancake syrup- a glob of sweet, over the top, artificial, nastiness.
However, that said snus is more subtle and refined in its flavor. Initially, you may not be able to taste all the intricacies of the particular snus you are using. Give it time and try a variety. You will eventually find more flavor there than you expect. Which brings me to another point: most dippers have a single dip that they stick to pretty regularly. Not so with snus. Most snusers (myself included) have several brands that are in their regular rotation. My advice is to hold off at first on ordering rolls at a time. Again pups, give it time and try a variety.
Suggestions.
Here are a few suggestions of the stronger flavors that you might want to begin with (all loose).
Gotlands Gul (yellow)
Knox
Granit
Kronan
Skruf
Gustavus
Gotlands Gra (grey)
Also, if you were a Skoal or Kodiak fan you might want to try the Offroad Wintergreen (but I do not condone it any more than I would have condoned your berry Skoal over my Copenhagen straight).
You will probably not be able to taste Ettan, Prima Fint, or Grov at first (I still can�t taste Prima Fint after a year and a half but Grov is one of my favorites. The slow sturdy flavor is delectable). Save Ettan and Grov for your second or third order. You will want to try them just not at first IMO.
Another thing that you need to know is that most snus is much more finely ground than American dip. All the above recommendations (with the exception of Granit) will have more of the consistency that you are used to with dip. Now this is both a good and a bad thing and leads us to the whole lipping it verses baking it debate (i.e. lower lip verses upper lip). I do both, though I primarily bake. Now be warned pups that lipping it will get you labeled a big ol� redneck by our Swedish/European counter parts. But a little redneck would probably do em all some good. Here is where I come down on it. There are some times when a man has just got to spit. You can�t say �Well kiss my ass� or �I�d piss on a spark plug if I thought it would help� and end it by baking something they call a pris. There are things in life and utterances to be said that have just got to end with a spit. However, that said, the convenience of not having to spit, of being able to work and snus at the same time, of putting in a pris and having it go strong for 2-3 hours are all great advantages. So when you�re fishing, drinking bear in the back yard, or looking at a busted water line and trying to figure out how to fix it- lip it. For the rest of the time you are going to want to learn to bake (use your upper lip). One more thing, snus will not last as long as dip when you lip it. The finer cut means that more is lost with each spit than with dip.
"Baking"/"Pinch and Toss"
Baking
To learn to bake a pris watch Zero�s video posted (see below) and start with Granit or Roda. Both are incredibly easy to bake and taste great. One final point. You will not go wrong purchasing a Pris Master to start off with. They are only a couple of bucks and will help you a lot as you get started learning to bake. However as a member of the pound and an x-dipper you will find that you have skills that our x-smoker friends do not possess. You know how to wield loose tobacco. It is in your blood. It is your natural arena of expression. Having this special power, I found that once my upper lip got used to the snus, I no longer needed to bake. Now I just pinch, knock off the excess, place it under the lip, and give one quick adjustment with the tongue and I am good to go- no runs, no mudslides.
Video guide to handbaking.
With all that, let me be the first to welcome you to the world of snus. I hope some of the things that I have found may be of help to you. But in the end, as Sagedil has often reminded us, it�s what you like and what works for you. Have fun with it and try a variety.
"Pinch and Toss"
In addition to a tool, I think it will help to learn to hand bake and to pinch and toss. The reason is that between these two techniques and a tool you should be able to handle any varying degree of moisture, grind, and need.
To Pinch and toss
1. Get a pinch with three fingers (not real big- start smaller than what seems right)
2. Gently squeeze the pinch between your fingers and press it against the tobacco in the can- or you can use the lid.). Don�t spend a lot of time. This should be fast. You aren�t baking. You are just compressing the wad a bit.
{Note: if you set the pinch down on the lid at this point, it should look somewhat rough and triangular- don't set it down. I'm just saying what it would look like if you did.}
3. Next, with the pinch still in your fingers,knock off the excess tobacco from around the compressed lump,
4. Finally, put the tobacco firmly in place in your mouth (I think this is one of the most important steps in the process. When you put the tobacco in, really stick it up in there firmly).
5. Give it a good poke/shove with the tongue.
6. Let it set up with out playing with it too much untill it does
7. Enjoy
Common Questions
As I read the forum and try to help answer some questions for those just beginning with los, there seems to be three important point that keep repeating. Therefore I am including them here in this second edit. Here goes:
1. One of the most important things to do as you begin with los is to give your lip time to adjust to having a pris under it. Give it about 2-3 weeks (depending on how often you use los). Once your lip adjusts, everything gets a whole lot easier.
2. Second, the mistake that most people make when beginning is to make the pris too big. So, make the pris smaller and work up if you need to.
3. Third, I think finding the pris placement that works for you is also very important. I�ve seen all the Swedish videos where people put snus under their upper middle lip and for the life of me I cannot fathom why. For me the placement that works best, is more discrete, and is easier to control is on the side about 3 teeth back from the two front (too far back and you will generate more saliva and thus mudslides, too far front and it just did not feel right to me)
Now as far as playing with the pris with your tongue: I found that letting it set up and kind of mold to the mouth worked best before fiddling with it (a few minutes, until it feels settled). Then play with it all you want. Once it�s compressed and in there, it will be far less likely to break up or have parts pulled away by the tongue.
Finally, and I cannot stress this enough, the real trick is taking your time and finding what works for you. I think one of the most important aspects of this forum is the sharing of ideas, techniques, and experiences- not as a rule of how it must be done- but as various ideas (things you may not have thought of) that you can try, mix and match, and adjust to fit your own preferences.
Los Snus takes longer to develop than portions. The key is patience.
Los takes longer to develop. About the time you would be finishing a portion, los is just kicking in. The key is patience.
However, this is not a universal law. A whole lot depends on how tightly the pris is baked. Since newbies tend to try for pris perfection, they tend to bake things tighter. The result is a slower flavor release (it takes saliva longer to penetrate a tighter pris). Also remember that a portion is loose unpacked snus in a bag that is often moistened with tobacco flavored water. Saliva gets to and mixes with it faster.
On the other hand, a looser bake or placing the pris in the mouth where it gets more saliva will cause quicker taste release. Thus its not a law but more of a tendency.
That said this is one of the things I love about los. There are so many things that you can do to adjust and fine tune los for the exact need of the moment. I can bake loose, big, and place further back in the mouth for quicker flavor and nic. I can bake smaller, tighter, and place forward in the mouth for a longer lasting more economical snoose (or any countless combinations of the above). It�s like the difference between an automatic and manual focus camera. Anyway�
The reason I think that this point is important is that when someone tries los and says they cannot taste it, very often (not always but often) it is due to the bake**. The problem is solved with just a little patience, giving the snus time to develop.
In time they will learn to adjust their bakes. But it is good to know both ends of the spectrum. It's good to know how to go long and let the snus develop. It's good to know how to pinch and toss and have the snus kick in at once.
How to get a pris into your mouth without backup.
1. Hold the pris between two fingers
2. Open your mouth and hold the pris above your tongue
3. Now move your fingers with the pris to the left or to the right
4. Your outside finger will hit the side of your lip/mouth
5. push/stretch the lip out a bit with the back of the finger
6. slide your finger up, around the inside of the lip until it is where you want the pris to go
7. put pris in place, remove fingers, and adjust with tongue to preference
Important: a big advantage of this method is that there is no need to grip the pris tightly and thus break it up as you struggle to get it in. Therefore, it is important to remember to relax, hold the pris lightly, and let the back of your finger clear the way in a single natural motion
Hope this helps, give it time, and SnusOn my friends.
Chad's Input
The guide above is very good. My additions are a few of my articles below, one comparing the Prismaster and the Icetool, and a complete guide to how to use the Icetool.
Differences between Dip & Snus
Snubie.com Videos: The differences between Dip and Snus
